MOORER: It's a good question: Where were the leaders? The only ones that, of course, have any influence, when you get right down to it, are those on active duty. And that's what he was talking about, those on active duty. But at the same time, if you resign in a civilian-controlled situation, where the President is the Commander in Chief and so on, you can bet your bottom dollar that the guy that takes your place will agree to do what you wouldn't do. So you don't really accomplish anything.

Q: Kelso leaves. Boorda comes in. Is Boorda a patsy for this Administration?

MOORER: I don't think he's a patsy, but I think he was heavily pressured on social issues. And whatever you want to blame on Boorda, you've got to blame on the Administration, because he didn't do anything unless he got orders to do it. So he's struggling all the time, while at the same time he had to contend with a major reduction in Defense budget, and moving forces around, and base closures, and all of that.

Q: When you were a younger man, with regard to women, men, and the role of women-- How were things different?

MOORER: Well, maybe I'll put it this way, jokingly. When I was a young man, the wives were very unhappy if you went ashore. Now, they're very unhappy if you don't go ashore. If you get the point.

Q: Well, what does that mean?

MOORER: There's plenty of women on the ship. Why in hell should you go ashore? I've been around the world quite a bit. I can tell you one thing. If you think that a young kid, 20 or 21 years old or so, that's been in battles, idea of a great time and a great and wonderful amusement is to sit in a soft chair and listen to Mozart, you're mistaken. That's not what they're going to do. And you're never going to be able to stop it. And you can pass all the rules and laws and do anything you want to them. But you're not going to change their human nature.

The problem is, in this country, they're trying to change the Navy when they ought to be changing humanity. That's what's wrong. I think that with the Naval Academy and West Point and the Air Force Academy, that the selection of candidates should have an extensive review of their family. How did these guys grow up? What have they been exposed to? What are the standards in their family? What are they told is okay?

There are plenty of fine, good families. If you examine the difficulties in the young people that come in the military, you'll find almost invariably that they either come from - a broken family, or they have no family, or whatever. That's the reason I'm taking about changing humanity. We are down at the bottom of the social culture, and we got to build back up again. Otherwise, God help the young children that are coming along.