November 13, 1995
Correspondents: Michel Mcqueen, Brit Hume, John Cochrane
Anchor: Cokie Roberts
ANNOUNCER: November 13th, 1995.
COKIE ROBERTS (VO): It's the Washington version of Beat the Clock.
SEN BOB DOLE: We're prepared to act up until midnight, or after.
COKIE ROBERTS (VO): A political impasse over the budget-
PRES BILL CLINTON: I would be wrong to permit these kind of pressure
tactics.
REP NEWT GINGRICH: It's very sad to see the President choose this
political game.
COKIE ROBERTS (VO): -and federal services hang in the balance. Tonight,
as the clock strikes 12:00, the government shuts down.
ANNOUNCER: This is ABC News Nightline. Substituting for Ted Koppel and
reporting from Washington, Cokie Roberts.
COKIE ROBERTS: It's after midnight in Washington, so the government must
be closed, right? Well, technically right, but this is Washington, after all,
and nothing is quite that simple. After casting his threatened vetoes,
President Clinton and congressional leaders met tonight, trying to fix the mess
they had made, but the meeting broke up not long ago, with only the promise to
meet again tomorrow. Each side is trying to score political points in this
budget drama without getting blamed for chaos. 'Protector of Medicare' is
President Clinton's chosen role, and he refused to sign the bill to keep the
government going because it required Medicare recipients to pay more for some
premiums than they currently expect to. Republicans are playing 'protectors of
the purse,' but both sides are worried that voters will see them as game
playing politicians, and an ABC News / Washington Post poll released tonight
shows that's exactly what voters do think. Nine times in the past 14 years, the
government's officially run out of money. Four times it's actually shut down.
This is becoming a well worn script.
(VO) But the poll also shows that Republicans get more of the blame for
a possible shutdown; 46 percent say they're at fault, 27 percent blame the
President. (on camera) Those numbers served as a backdrop to the events of
this very long day. Nightline correspondent Michel McQueen has our report.
RADIO ANNOUNCER: Federal shutdown, will it happen? Stay tuned for
instant updates.
MICHEL MCQUEEN, ABC NEWS (VO): As the sun rose, so did the volume in a
divided Washington.
VICE PRES AL GORE (NBC): They have not done their job. Now they're
trying to make an end run around the Constitution, around the normal
procedures.
REP ROBERT LIVINGSTON, (R), CHAIRMAN, APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: We've
done a lot to work our way toward the President. He has not done thing toward
coming toward us.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): Eight thirty AM, President Clinton vetoed the
first of two bills at issue in the budget crisis, one that would raise the
federal debt limit and require a balanced budget in seven years.
PRES BILL CLINTON: It would allow the United States to pay its debts for
another month, but only at a price too high for the American people to pay.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): And as federal workers headed to the office, the
confrontation over the other bill - providing money to keep the government
operating temporarily - cast a shadow over the workday.
1ST FEDERAL WORKER: I think it's nonsense. I'm involved in personnel, so
I'm the one who's going to be going to my office to type up furlough letters,
including to myself.
2ND FEDERAL WORKER: The reality is that the Congress and the President
have to get together and come to terms on exactly, you know, what needs to be
done to ensure that there isn't a shutdown.
PRES BILL CLINTON: Thank you.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): Mid morning. In a duel to seize the moral high
ground, the President and House Speaker Newt Gingrich delivered speeches to
friendly audiences.
PRES BILL CLINTON: As long as they insist on plunging ahead with a
budget that violates our values, in a process that is characterized more by
pressure than constitutional practice, I will fight it. I am fighting it today,
I will fight it tomorrow, I will fight it next week, and next month.
REP NEWT GINGRICH: We can balance the budget, we can save the Medicare
trust fund, we can reform the welfare system if we can have an honest dialogue
among ourselves as a people.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): At the Senate, the first sign of movement.
Republican budget leader Pete Domenici offered a compromise to freeze Medicare
premiums at their current level.
SEN PETE DOMENICI: Now, of late, and I don't know whether this is
acceptable across the board, but I've at least discussed, after talking with my
staff, I've discussed with the Republican leaders here and with others that
perhaps the solution is to freeze that at $46.10.
MICHEL MCQUEEN: But at noon, despite the glimmer of progress, all signs
still point to a government shutdown, with no clue about how long it will last,
or what the long term impact might be. And although Washington has seen these
shutdowns before, nearly everyone agrees that this one is different.
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: It has the potential of
a serious disruption, and a historic change. You have a Republican Congress,
especially a Republican House, bound and determined not to compromise and to
push its vision of the budget and of the role of the federal government down
the throat of the President of the United States, and you have a president
saying, 'I draw the line in the dust, and I won't let this happen.'
HELEN THOMAS, UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL: You always had the sense that
it was very- it would be resolved very soon. There seems to be a different mood
this time around, a real- there's a real division of philosophy, I think, of
government. It's- it's, I think, a real crisis.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): The real crisis for federal workers, like these in
the Social Security office in Kansas City, was the fear of losing a
paycheck.
3RD FEDERAL WORKER: When we go on furlough, then that means immediately
we have no income, and even if it was just us, it would be one thing, but we
have a child to take care of.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): And at this national park in Ventura County,
California, rangers were preparing for limited operations.
NATIONAL PARK RANGER: The areas will be closed off to the public, but we
will maintain patrols of the area and maintain a patrol staff for emergency
medical services, protection of the resource, and search and rescue
operations.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): Back in Washington, twice as many people as usual
showed up at the passport office, fearing the office would soon close. Two
thirty PM Presidential spokesman Mike McCurry threw cold water on a proposed
compromise on Medicare and on the Congress' overall approach to funding.
MIKE MCCURRY: The President is very concerned about 60 percent funding
level. He has made that clear repeatedly in the statements he's made the last
two days, and that just is an unacceptable cointinuing bill.
REPORTER: So that's a veto. That means a veto, correct?
MIKE MCCURRY: It's unacceptable.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): And with the White House unwilling to compromise,
senators said they also were not interested, and that they would send the
President their original funding bill. They pointedly noted they would remain
on the job.
SEN BOB DOLE: We're prepared to act up until midnight, or after, if
necessary, to prevent a shutdown of the federal government.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): And the blame game continued.
REP NEWT GINGRICH: We want the country to understand that the only way
the government will close tomorrow is, that it is President Clinton is
determined to close it.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): And shortly before 9:00 PM, congressional leaders
reached out.
REP NEWT GINGRICH: We want to go down and talk with the President about
how to keep the government open, and to try to have a discussion about how we
will get to a balanced budget and keep the government open, and the- he said no
preconditions, and we said no preconditions.
MICHEL MCQUEEN (VO): It was the Republicans who asked the President for
the meeting, and while the phone call got them an invitation to the White
House, it could not save their funding bill. Within the hour, the President own
at midnight. (on camera) It's worth repeating that this whole exercise was
over a measure that funds government operations for only 18 days, and any
agreement the leaders come up with will also be temporary, so unless the
Congress and the President can find common ground on balancing the budget, they
could do it all again next month. This is Michel McQueen for Nightline, in
Washington.
COKIE ROBERTS: Now standing by at the White House, ABC's Brit Hume, and
wn at midnight. (on camera) It's worth repeating that this whole exercise was
over a measure that funds government operations for only 18 days, and any
agreement the leaders come up with will also be temporary, so unless the
Congress and the President can find common ground on balancing the budget, they
could do it all again next month. This is Michel McQueen for Nightline, in
Washington.
COKIE ROBERTS: Now standing by at the White House, ABC's Brit Hume, and
on Capitol Hill, ABC's John Cochran. Brit, the meeting broke up, everybody came
out, and-?
BRIT HUME, ABC NEWS: And everybody said that they'd had a very candid
meeting, and that they had discussed all of their differences and they'd talked
about a full range of budgetary topics, and basically hadn't made any progress
and agreed that there would be another meeting tomorrow, but at a lower level.
So it looks like everybody's setting in to let this last a while.
COKIE ROBERTS: Now, John Cochran, you've heard reports throughout the
day of a new Republican plan. Let's hear that one.
JOHN COCHRAN, ABC NEWS: Well, what the Republicans have been kicking
around is this idea about Medicare that Michel was talking about, to pull the
increase in Medicare premiums off the table, to keep in the lower spending
levels that they want, and also to add something to this continuing resolution
bill. That would be a commitment that the President would have to sign onto, to
balance the budget in seven years. You can ask Congressman Kasich about that
later.
COKIE ROBERTS: But Brit, that's exactly what the President objected to
in that other piece of legislation that he vetoed early in the day, that debt
ceiling legislation.
BRIT HUME: Well, Cokie, that's true. It was one of the things in that
bill that he objected to, but it wasn't the one he talked about the most, and
it did not appear to be the principal cause of his objection to that measure.
And it's by no means clear that a measure sent down here which basically said,
'We keep the government going for two weeks, you agree that we will now
negotiate over a seven year balanced budget plan, and we'll keep it going at
only 60 percent of current levels, or thereabouts,' that the President would be
in quite the same position. On this last one, he was able to say, 'I'm not
letting you raise Medicare premiums,' and that, of course, has wide appeal.
People are worried about Medicare, a lot of elderly people who vote. It's a
different matter when all that's at stake is the level of spending, and while
the White House was saying today that was unacceptable, officials stopped short
of saying that the President would veto it to protect spending alone, because
in political terms, which is what ultimately matters here, that is not nearly
so appealing a position to be in.
COKIE ROBERTS: And in political terms, John Cochran, that's getting back
to what I said earlier, Republicans as protectors of the purse, balancers of
the budget.
JOHN COCHRAN: Yes.
COKIE ROBERTS: Are they planning to capitalize on that?
JOHN COCHRAN: Well, the Republicans are feeling the pinch. You showed
that poll earlier that says, in fact, the Republicans are getting most of the
blame from the public, and this is coming as something of a shock to the
Republicans. You will notice, it is the Republicans who are calling the White
House each time and saying, 'Let's talk,' it's not Bill Clinton doing that. And
the Republicans knew that this was not- they were not going to reach any deal
tonight, so three hours before midnight, the Republican National Committee
released an ad that will appear.
(VO) A big ad that will appear in USA Today tomorrow, to try to put the
blame on the President, and that ad says, 'This morning' - that would be
actually now this morning - 'the President spent $607 million and closed the
Washington Monument. It would have been cheaper to balance the budget.'
(on camera) So they were ready for this.
COKIE ROBERTS: So- so and the political battle wages on. Thank you both
very much. When we come back, White House budget director Alice Rivlin and
House Budget Committee chairman John Kasich.
(Commercial break)
COKIE ROBERTS: Joining us from our Washington bureau, just out of the
Oval Office meeting, Alice Rivlin, director of the White House Office of
Management and Budget. Ms Rivlin, tell us about the meeting. Was there any
progress made on getting to opening the government anytime soon?
ALICE RIVLIN, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: Well, it was a
very frank and open exchange of views, as they say. The President was very
strong. He had just finished vetoing the continuing resolution, the stop gap
spending measure that had the Medicare premium increase on it, and he made very
clear that that was unacceptable, that Medicare increases did not belong in
this kind of an interim spending bill. And then everybody talked about how they
felt about it, but no progress was made. We will, in fact, have to close the
government tomorrow.
COKIE ROBERTS: And how long do you expect it to stay closed?
ALICE RIVLIN: All of us hope that it isn't closed for very long, but
this is a difficult negotiation, and it's very hard to tell. It might be one
day, it might be two or three, or more.
COKIE ROBERTS: Now, you heard John Cochran just say that there was a
plan being circulated of pulling out the Medicare part of it and insisting on
the President signing onto a balanced budget in seven years. Was that what you
were hearing in the meeting?
ALICE RIVLIN: There was some of that in the meeting. I think the one
thing that is clear is that Medicare is now off the table. The Republicans
tried to attach a premium increase to the continuing resolution. It was vetoed
by the President and they certainly don't have the votes to pass that over
veto.
COKIE ROBERTS: So- so the argument now is back to this fundamental
balancing the budget argument?
ALICE RIVLIN: It's back to what conditions, if any, should there be on a
continuing resolution? Now, we don't-
COKIE ROBERTS: A continuing resolution meaning that piece of legislation
to keep the government going?
ALICE RIVLIN: Exactly. And since all we're talking about - we're not
talking about the budget here - we are talking about keeping the government
going while the budget debate goes on. The Republicans haven't sent us a budget
yet, they haven't finished their job. So we are only talking about how to keep
the government open, and extraneous matters like Medicare premium increases
don't belong on that kind of legislation.
COKIE ROBERTS: Ms Rivlin, you have been- now you're at the White House
end of Pennsylvania Avenue. You have been at the other end, as head of the
Congressional Budget Office. You have watched these shutdowns, where the
government runs out of money, and all of that, for many years. The American
people are saying, in all of the polls and all of the interviews, 'We're sick
of this. We think that this government should do better than that.' I mean,
what do you say to them? Why is this going on? Why are you all meeting in the
middle of the night and not able to keep the government open?
ALICE RIVLIN: Well, I wish we weren't, and I think it's really quite
stupid and counterproductive to be closing down the government. For reasons
best known to themselves, the Republican majority in Congress decided they
wanted to do that. They had a simple way out. They could have signed a clean,
simple bill that would keep the government open, but they chose not to do that.
They chose to attach to that bill conditions that they knew the President could
not accept. They wanted him to veto, they wanted to close down the
government.
COKIE ROBERTS: But you've seen that happen over the years, too. I
remember Democrats putting aid to the Contras on bills that they wanted
President Reagan to sign. You've seen all of this go on, and apparently, what
we're seeing now in the polls is a cumulative disgust over the years with
what's been going on here.
ALICE RIVLIN: Well, that's not surprising, but the President feels very
strongly that- not that we should close down the government, clearly we should
not. But he cannot accept conditions that are simply against the values that
this administration holds, and raising Medicare premiums is one of those, and
accepting other conditions on the budget right now just cannot be done.
COKIE ROBERTS: Of course, there are those who say that he is just
playing politics with Medicare. Very quickly, do you have an answer to that?
ALICE RIVLIN: politics is what presidents are elected to do, but
politics is a very important thing. It is reflecting the values of the American
people. There are two budgets before the Congress and before the public. The
one that we are in favor of, we believe reflects the values of the American
public, the common ground on which we stand. It is not extreme and it does get
to balance.
COKIE ROBERTS: All right. Thank you very much, Alice Rivlin.
(VO) When we come back, the Republican view from Representative John
Kasich, the House Budget Committee chairman.
(Commercial break)
COKIE ROBERTS: Joining us from Capitol Hill, Representative John Kasich,
chairman of the House Budget Committee. Congressman Kasich, first of all, thank
you for staying up so very late. You've just heard Alice Rivlin saying that
they- that the President won't back down on basic values. Is there any backing
down on the Republican side?
REP JOHN KASICH, (R), CHAIRMAN, BUDGET COMMITTEE: Well, the most basic
value, Cokie, is that we, frankly, balance the budget so that the next
generation is going to have decent jobs and be able to buy a house. I mean,
when mothers and fathers think about what their children are going to have in
15 years, they're very worried about it, and if we don't balance the budget,
there will be a erosion of fundamental American values.
COKIE ROBERTS: Well, is-
REP JOHN KASICH: So we're not going to back down from balancing the
budget and saving the next generation.
COKIE ROBERTS: But what about on this question of adding a balanced
budget to this just short term, 18 day, by tomorrow 17 day, resolution to
keep the government going, so that you don't have to go through all of this
mess?
REP JOHN KASICH: Well, the continuing resolution is- is absolutely
consistent with our plan to balance the budget. What we say in there is for
programs that we flat out zero out, like the Interstate Commerce Commission,
the oldest bureaucracy in America, we want to zero that out, we want to get
started on that, and the administration says no. We didn't even zero it out in
our continuing resolution, we funded it at 60 percent. They said, well, that's
not good enough. Look, what we're doing in the short term is entirely
consistent with what we want to do in the long term, and we want to stop the
politics as usual. Cokie, look-
COKIE ROBERTS: But-
REP JOHN KASICH: -two years ago, Tim Penny, a Democrat from Minnesota,
and I fought the fight to cut one penny out of every dollar. The same special
interests and the same administration worked us over, they defeated this
bipartisan effort. We couldn't even cut a penny-
COKIE ROBERTS: But you-
REP JOHN KASICH: -and I'll tell you, it's time for change.
COKIE ROBERTS: -but you say you want to stop politics as usual. The
voters clearly think this is not only politics as usual, but it's Washington as
usual, and the same old mess that they hate in Washington, and in our poll
tonight, it's Republicans, 64 percent of the people say Republicans are playing
politics with this.
REP JOHN KASICH: I know. Cokie, the easiest thing to do in this city is
pass out money. That's why we're $5 trillion in debt. That's why the next
generation is in trouble. That's why a kid born today is going to give
government 82 percent of everything he or she earns. We're-
COKIE ROBERTS: But nobody- but you know, people don't disagree with you
on that. People want to balance the budget, but they are saying they don't, in
all of the polling, that they don't want to balance it your way.
REP JOHN KASICH: Look, the problem is, we're- our- under our plan to
balance the budget, federal spending will increase by $3 trillion over the next
seven years more than what we spent in the last seven years. If people knew
that, they would go and say, 'Why are you spending so much?' Our problem is,
the President runs around and uses the word 'extreme' and 'cuts' and everything
else. We're not cutting spending, we're slowing the growth. The President, he
doesn't have any budget. We sent his budget to be analyzed by the budget office
here in Washington, and guess what-
COKIE ROBERTS: Well-
REP JOHN KASICH: -they said he's got deficits of $200 billion in the out
years.
COKIE ROBERTS: Well-
REP JOHN KASICH: So, look, we're willing to sit down and negotiate
priorities. We're willing to be flexible on that, but Cokie, this is the last
best chance we have to save this next generation by just putting ourselves on a
slight diet. When the people find out what this is, we're going to be fine.
COKIE ROBERTS: Well, give me your sense of what happens now. There was a
meeting in the middle of the night tonight. It broke up with everybody saying,
'We're nowhere.' Now what?
REP JOHN KASICH: Well, Leon Panetta and Alice Rivlin are going to come
up here tomorrow and they're going to meet with Pete Domenici and- and me, and
we're going to have a discussion about is there any common ground. And-
COKIE ROBERTS: And meanwhile, the government's shut down, and it's
costing us all money.
REP JOHN KASICH: Well, I've just to got to tell you, Cokie, that, you
know, maybe we can work something out on a continuing resolution, but it's got
to be consistent with the plan to balance the budget. We know that there's
going to be some political hits we're going to take in this, but frankly,
Cokie, in my career, this is the best chance I have to serve America. This is
not about politics and trying to blame the other side. I've done more deals
with Democrats, putting things together like Tim Penny, than any Republican,
and you know that. This is about the principle of finally saying no to special
interest groups, balancing the budget, and saving the children of the next
generation and doing ourselves some good by lowering interest rates.
COKIE ROBERTS: Thank you, John Kasich, chairman of the Budget Committee.
We'll see if we get any kind of deal, and I'll be back-
REP JOHN KASICH: Well, I hope we will.
COKIE ROBERTS: -and I'll be back with a special program note in a
moment.
(Commercial break)
COKIE ROBERTS: Tomorrow night, Ted Koppel moderates a special Nightline
town meeting from Jerusalem, 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.' Among the guests, acting
Israeli prime minister Shimon Peres and Leah Rabin, widow of the assassinated
prime minister. That's our broadcast for tonight. I'm Cokie Roberts in
Washington. For all of us here at ABC News, good night.
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