EXCERPT #3 FROM THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW
DR. RESNICK: EXACTLY. (pause) NOW, DO YOU VIEW YOURSELF AS HAVING ANY
MENTAL ILLNESS AT ALL?
JOHN SALVI: I know none whatsoever. If I have-- I've never been to a
psychiatrist, or ever had any form, any ... mental illness.
DR. RESNICK: FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOUR ATTORNEYS THOUGHT YOUR BEST BET WOULD
BE SOME KIND OF INSANITY DEFENSE, WOULD YOU GO ALONG WITH THAT?
JOHN SALVI: Insanity defense?
DR. RESNICK: MM HM.
JOHN SALVI: What benefit is an insanity defense?
DR. RESNICK: WELL, THE BENEFIT IS --
JOHN SALVI: What are the benefits?
DR. RESNICK: IF YOU SUCCEED, YOU WOULD GO TO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL
RATHER THAN TO PRISON. AND AS SOON AS YOU'RE CONSIDERED NOT DANGEROUS TO OTHERS,
YOU COULD BE RELEASED FROM THE HOSPITAL.
JOHN SALVI: To stand trial?
DR. RESNICK: NO, NO, NO. LET ME EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU. I'LL GO OVER THIS
WITH YOU. THE ISSUE OF COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL: YOU GO TO A HOSPITAL; YOU'RE
RESTORED; THEN, YOU EVENTUALLY STAND TRIAL. BUT IF YOU'RE FOUND NOT GUILTY BY
REASON OF INSANITY, THEN YOU GO TO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL, AND YOU NEVER STAND
TRIAL. IN OTHER WORDS, AT THE TRIAL, YOU'RE FOUND LEGALLY INSANE. AND
THEREFORE, YOU'RE NOT DECLARED ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACT. YOU'RE NOT PUNISHED.
YOU'RE NEVER SENT TO PRISON.
JOHN SALVI: How-- and what time period would you stay in the mental
institution?
DR. RESNICK: THAT WOULD DEPEND UPON WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERED NOT DANGEROUS
TO OTHERS. SO PEOPLE COULD BE THERE FOR JUST A MONTH, OR THEY COULD BE THERE FOR
A LIFETIME. BUT IT'S NOT FIXED, LIKE A PRISON-- YOU KNOW, YOU GET A FIXED TERM:
FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS, LIFE. IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL, IT WOULD BE DEPENDING
WHEN YOU'RE-- IF THE COURT VIEWED YOU AS NO LONGER MENTALLY ILL AND
NON-DANGEROUS, YOU COULD BE RELEASED. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUR ATTORNEYS
WOULD NEED TO WEIGH, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S A WISE-- I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT
IS NECESSARILY BEST FOR YOU. BUT THAT'S ONE CONSIDERATION THAT THEY WOULD ...
JOHN SALVI: Incompetent to stand trial, and go to a mental hospital ...
year.
DR. RESNICK: "NOT COMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL" MEANS YOU COME BACK AND
STAND TRIAL. BUT "INSANE" MEANS YOU NEVER GO TO PRISON. (pause) SO AT SOME
POINT, I'M SURE YOUR ATTORNEYS WILL DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU. IT'S VERY EARLY IN
THE STAGE OF THEM TRYING TO GET TO KNOW YOU AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S BEST. BUT I'M
JUST LAYING THIS OUT FOR YOU, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS,
WHEN YOU CHOOSE NOT TO COOPERATE IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS, AND YOU WOULDN'T ANSWER
THOSE QUESTIONS TO YOUR ATTORNEY, THEN IT'S HARD FOR THEM TO PUT ON THE BEST
DEFENSE, AND IT RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE COMPETENT TO STAND
TRIAL.
JOHN SALVI: Whether I'm competent stand trial.
DR. RESNICK: YEAH. ARE YOU ANXIOUS --
JOHN SALVI: I definitely consider myself competent to stand trial.
DR. RESNICK: YEAH. ARE YOU ANXIOUS --
JOHN SALVI: I definitely consider myself competent to stand trial.
DR. RESNICK: YOU DO. ARE YOU ANXIOUS TO STAND TRIAL? WOULD YOU LIKE TO
STAND TRIAL, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO AVOID IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE?
JOHN SALVI: Stand trial or avoid it as often as possible. No. I don't
run from trial. When there's a trial that's a date set, I would go to
trial.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. AND AT THAT TRIAL, YOU UNDERSTAND, YOUR ATTORNEYS
HAVE TO ENTER A PLEA. THE PLEA HAS TO BE "GUILTY", "NOT GUILTY", "NOT GUILTY,
REASON OF INSANITY". THAT DECISION HAS TO BE MADE. AND THE ATTORNEYS CAN'T MAKE
THAT DECISION ABOUT WHAT'S IN YOUR BEST INTEREST, ABOUT HOW TO DEFEND YOU BEST,
IF YOU DON'T COOPERATE WITH THEM AND SHARE WHETHER YOU COMMITTED THE CRIME, WHAT
YOUR STATE OF MIND WAS AT THE TIME OF THE CRIME. THOSE ARE FACTS THEY NEED TO
WEIGH, TO WORK OUT THE BEST DEFENSE. SO THIS IDEA THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SHARE
WHETHER YOU DID OR DIDN'T DO THE CRIME WITH THEM, THEY CAN'T GO TO TRIAL THAT
WAY. AT SOME POINT, YOU HAVE TO SHARE THAT WITH THEM, OR THEY CAN'T DEFEND YOU.
THEY CAN'T --
JOHN SALVI: Right. Now, the trial date would be set by the state?
DR. RESNICK: THE JUDGE WOULD SET THE TRIAL DATE.
JOHN SALVI: The judge would get approval from the attorney, as to how the
attorney would plea for me?
DR. RESNICK: YES. AT THIS POINT, I THINK THEY'VE ALREADY PUT IN A PLEA
OF "NOT GUILTY" FOR YOU.
JOHN SALVI: Right.
DR. RESNICK: BUT YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT, THEY'LL NEED TO CONSIDER ALL
THEIR OPTIONS. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER-- YOU CAN PLEAD THINGS LIKE
"ENTRAPMENT", "SELF-DEFENSE", "INSANITY". THERE'S VARIOUS KINDS OF PLEAS THAT
THE DEFENSE CAN PUT FORWARD, AFTER THEY SIZE UP THE CASE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S IN
YOUR BEST INTEREST. BUT IF YOU DON'T DISCUSS THE CRIME IN ANY WAY WITH THEM,
THEY CAN'T MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS. AND THERE'S A CHANCE, THEN, YOU'D BE FOUND
INCOMPETENT AND GO TO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL. AND THE QUESTION-- THAT'S WHAT I'M
TRYING TO SORT OUT WITH YOU. THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I'M HERE TO HELP THE
ATTORNEYS DECIDE, IS WHETHER YOU ARE ABLE TO COOPERATE AND YOU'RE JUST CHOOSING
NOT TO, OR WHETHER YOU CAN'T. (pause)
SO WITH THAT BACKGROUND, LET ME JUST COME BACK AND SAY-- FIRST OF ALL, AT
SOME POINT, DO YOU PLAN TO SHARE WHAT HAPPENED (YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU DID OR
DIDN'T DO THE CRIME) WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS? (pause) OR DO YOU PLAN NEVER TO
REVEAL THAT TO THEM?
JOHN SALVI: My plea is a plea of silence. There are certain questions
which I just do not wish to answer.
DR. RESNICK: AT ANY TIME? EVEN --
JOHN SALVI: That does not indicate, one way or the other. Did you eat at
Burger King at 3 O'clock in the morning? (pause)
DR. RESNICK: SILENCE.
JOHN SALVI: Silence.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT ONCE YOU GET TO COURT --
JOHN SALVI: How does that mean that I did eat there or didn't eat
there?
DR. RESNICK: IT DOESN'T.
JOHN SALVI: You know, in what way? I-- you know. I don't choose to
answer certain questions, just as certain questions you asked me, I didn't want
to answer.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. BUT WOULD YOU PLAN TO CARRY THAT RIGHT THROUGH THE
TRIAL? IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR ATTORNEY AT SOME POINT WILL SAY, "DO YOU WANT TO
TAKE THE STAND IN YOUR OWN BEHALF, AND TESTIFY?" YOU'VE GOT A RIGHT TO TESTIFY,
OR YOU'VE GOT A RIGHT TO NOT TESTIFY. AT THIS POINT, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD WANT
TO TESTIFY AT TRIAL?
JOHN SALVI: Would I want to testify in the trial? Testify. That's an
interesting word. Define it. What?
DR. RESNICK: IT MEANS, TAKE THE STAND AND TELL YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY.
JOHN SALVI: Oh, yes. I'll testify.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. YOU'D RATHER TESTIFY THAN NOT?
JOHN SALVI: Than refuse to go up in front and be questioned?
DR. RESNICK: YES.
JOHN SALVI: Oh, I want my moment, yes, to testify.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. NOW, WHEN YOU TESTIFY, THAT MEANS YOU SUBJECT
YOURSELF TO CROSS EXAMINATION, THAT THE PROSECUTOR IS TRYING--
JOHN SALVI: I'd like to speak with Ms. Bassil and Mr. Carney about
this.
DR. RESNICK: RIGHT. YOU CERTAINLY SHOULD. YOU CERTAINLY SHOULD TALK
OVER ALL THIS WITH THEM, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE-- WHAT MS. BASSIL TOLD ME WAS
THAT SHE'S ASKED YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CRIME, AND YOU SAID YOUR DEFENSE IS
SILENCE AND YOU WON'T DISCUSS IT. AND THEY'VE ACCEPTED THAT SO FAR, BUT AT SOME
POINT, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE ANSWERS, TO THINK THROUGH THE PROPER DEFENSE
FOR YOU. AND IT'S PERFECTLY PROPER THAT YOU TALK THAT OVER WITH THEM. BUT SEE,
THE DEFENSE OF SILENCE ISN'T LIKE AN OFFICIAL DEFENSE. IT'S NOT LIKE-- YOU CAN
PLEAD SELF DEFENSE. YOU CAN PLEAD INSANITY. YOU CAN'T PLEAD SILENCE. THAT'S NOT
--
JOHN SALVI: I can plead anything I want.
DR. RESNICK: WELL, BUT SEE, THE COURT WOULD --
JOHN SALVI: You don't have-- you have the fifth amendment.
DR. RESNICK: YES.
JOHN SALVI: At any point during the trial, say, "I plead the fifth
amendment."
DR. RESNICK: ABSOLUTELY TRUE. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
JOHN SALVI: Are you trying to take the fifth amendment away from me, even
though you're working for me?
DR. RESNICK: NO. NO, I'M NOT. NO. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE. IN THE
TRIAL, YOU CAN DECLINE TO TESTIFY. BUT IN WORKING WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS IN
PLANNING YOUR LEGAL STRATEGY, IF YOU DON'T DISCUSS THE CRIME WITH THEM, IT RAISES
A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL -- AS TO WHETHER THAT'S WILLFUL
NOT COOPERATING, OR IF YOU SAY, "I'M NOT GOING TO COOPERATE, AND HERE ARE THE
REASONS WHY." WHEN I SAY "NOT COOPERATE", I KNOW YOU'RE BEING PARTLY
COOPERATIVE.
JOHN SALVI: Who said I'm not cooperating? You keep mentioning
non-cooperation. I haven't-- I believe I was food poisoned. We know I-- there's
actual evidence, blood tests and urine tests. They weren't tested for
everything. However, there is substantial proof that I was poisoned, down in
Norfolk.
DR. RESNICK: WHEN I SAY "NOT COOPERATE", I AM REFERRING TO DECLINING TO
ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. YOU'RE GENERALLY COOPERATING, AND YOU'VE GENERALLY BEEN
COOPERATIVE WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS. BUT THERE ARE IMPORTANT AREAS WHICH YOU HAVE
BUILD A FENCE AROUND AND SAID, "I WON'T DISCUSS THAT." THAT'S WHAT I'M CALLING
BEING UNCOOPERATIVE.
JOHN SALVI: I haven't eaten in a few days. I have mentioned that
before.
DR. RESNICK: BUT YOU'RE SELECTIVELY--
JOHN SALVI: And now, you keep saying that I'm uncooperative. I think I'm
pretty cooperative to even come in here at this time.
DR. RESNICK: WELL, THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE.
JOHN SALVI: Now, you're working for me.
DR. RESNICK: YES.
JOHN SALVI: I may not be paying you directly, but the ways of the law
states-- the way that the state set up the laws is that they would pay you for
me, because I couldn't afford to hire you.
DR. RESNICK: THAT'S CORRECT.
JOHN SALVI: Which means that you're working for me, to help me.
DR. RESNICK: THAT'S RIGHT. BUT IF YOU--
JOHN SALVI: You're not questioning me for the prosecution.
DR. RESNICK: THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT.
JOHN SALVI: That's the way it's supposed to be.
DR. RESNICK: THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. BUT IF YOU CONTINUE NOT TO ANSWER
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CRIME, THEN YOUR ATTORNEYS HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO
INTRODUCE TO THE COURT THE QUESTION OF YOUR COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL, AND
WHETHER YOU SHOULD GO TO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL.
JOHN SALVI: Right. Well, I'd like to sit down with Ms. Bassil, Mr.
Carney, and you, if you'd like -- probably best -- and we can discuss this with
them, and see what they think.
DR. RESNICK: OKAY. THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S FAIR. BUT THE REASON I'M LAYING
ALL THIS OUT TO YOU IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT YOUR DEFENSE OF SILENCE,
I HAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU MIGHT JUST GO RIGHT THROUGH TO TRIAL
AND JUST DECLINE TO DISCUSS THE CRIME. AND I'M TELLING YOU, THAT WON'T HAPPEN;
THAT YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE FOUND NOT COMPETENT TO STAND
TRIAL, SENT TO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL --
JOHN SALVI: Excuse me. Repeat what you just said, if you could.
DR. RESNICK: I'M SAYING THAT IF YOU SIMPLY ARE WAITING TO TALK WITH
YOUR ATTORNEYS, UNTIL YOU'RE READY, ABOUT THE CRIME, THAT'S FINE. BUT IF YOU
WERE TO SAY TO YOUR ATTORNEYS, "I WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS CRIME; EVEN RIGHT THROUGH
THE TRIAL, I WILL NOT DISCUSS IT," --
JOHN SALVI: You have the right-- let me explain something to you. You
have the right to plead the fifth amendment through an entire trial.
(Next excerpt)
